Music

Music: Lyrics link

2008-09-16T04:16:33.0012Z

The link on Track was hidden and unused because we weren’t sure it really belonged on the track.

On sandbox, I have removed it from Musical Track and recreated it on Composition instead. Two recordings of the same composition ought to have the same lyrics; one could make a very good case that if the lyrics are different, then one is talking about a different arrangement of the composition, at the least.

However, most lyrics Web sites do index by recording artist, so maybe this doesn’t work. What do you think?

As for external keys: that is something that Freebase is particularly good at. You can make a LyricsWiki namespace (e.g. /user/metaeducation/lyricswiki) and add keys to artists and compositions within that namespace. You can also make a URI template that automatically generates Web links from those keys; take a look at how the IMDb links for actors are constructed.

Musical Track: Lyrics link

2008-09-16T04:16:33.0012Z

The link on Track was hidden and unused because we weren’t sure it really belonged on the track.

However, most lyrics Web sites do index by recording artist, so maybe this doesn’t work. What do you think?

Music: Lyrics link

2008-09-14T09:59:17.0018Z

Hello... I am trying to implement a system by which the lyrics for a song are downloaded from LyricsWiki via their API. It would help if the lyrics web link were not suppressed in the schema. That way, the assocation could be made from within Freebase. As it is, I must maintain a separate table mapping Freebase IDs (artists, songs) to the names given by LyricsWiki, and that's not fun!

So would it be possible to expose this field? I know that there is probably some contention in terms of which website be the "official" lyrics link, but if multiple links were allowed I would merely pick out the LyricsWiki link from that set...

Tx...

Musical Track: Lyrics link

2008-09-14T09:59:17.0018Z

Tx...

Music: Cover Song

2008-09-11T00:19:02.0012Z

I hadn't seen Chris's post when I wrote my last one. I wonder if it's possible, though, with the current composition/arrangement types, to assert "cover-songness". A cover song, I as understand the term, is necessarily of a pop song (otherwise, a majority of classical, stage musical, opera, and folk recordings, and a great many jazz recordings, would be considered covers, which they aren't). Or in other words, I don't think that Jimi Hendrix's recording of the Star Spangled Banner would really be considered a cover, any more than one by Kate Smith be.

Music: Cover Song

2008-09-10T23:06:22.0012Z

I wouldn't want to overload adaptation/adapted work for this, I don't think -- the additional properties would be too specific. But I think additional types or properties are the way to go with this -- I don't think the original recording artist of a song can be garnered with certainty in the current schema.

Music: Cover Song

2008-09-10T23:03:44.0012Z

The Composition type is the key here, along with the Arrangement. A fairly straightforward cover, like those performed by cover bands, would be a recording of the same Composition. A reworking, like Anka’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” or the Brown Band’s version for that matter, or Hendrix’s “The Star-Spangled Banner,” is a recording of an Arrangement which is in turn an arrangement of the original Composition.

Music: Cover Song

2008-09-10T22:42:45.0006Z

So a very popular trend in music in the past decade has been artists reworking pop/rock standards (like Paul Anka's swinging big band version of Smells Like Teen Spirit) as cover songs (tributes).

I would love to capture the relationship between source and covered version (sort of like adaptation in the media commons (should it be part of that type? Though I'd like to have a property that characterized the type of cover this is: identical?, revised, radical, language (english version of a foriegn language version), etc.

I guess another related property to consider would could be sampled song for samples as used in dance, rap/hip hop, mashups.

Music: dates and location of composition

2008-09-08T22:02:15.0012Z

ok - i'll look into the catalog numbers seperately in a classical music domain once i get around to it.

i set up a user domain for dedications (Dedicated Work). I think this could be generally useful (applied to literature and what not) and does not need to be directly tied to composition.

Place of composition should likely be non unique since there are numerous instances where the composer travelled while writing the piece. I think for modeling place composed similar to places lived is sufficient. Similarly, capturing a start and end date is also likely sufficient. Modelling compositions begun by one composer and finished by others is basically just hard (see this example) and happens infrequently enough that i think if someone cared enough they could break out the variant completions into seperate compositions. but for simplicity's sake, i think just having a date begun, date completed pair on the composition itself would help capture lots of useful data.

Composition: dates and location of composition

2008-09-08T22:02:15.0012Z

ok - i'll look into the catalog numbers seperately in a classical music domain once i get around to it.

i set up a user domain for dedications (Dedicated Work). I think this could be generally useful (applied to literature and what not) and does not need to be directly tied to composition.

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-08T18:01:05.0012Z

I meant remove the "Songwriter" from Cage's page not from Freebase

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-08T18:01:05.0012Z

I meant remove the "Songwriter" from Cage's page not from Freebase

Music: dates and location of composition

2008-09-08T17:25:56.0012Z

As with most good user suggestions, I will say: Go try it out!

The question of catalog keys is easiest. Go make /user/arielb/koechel, and create an enumerated property for a Mozart composition type. Other notable catalogs (Schickele) can be similarly modeled. Opus numbers could be a machine-readable string, but probably on a Classical composition type; other compositions do not tend to have those.

The key, dedication, commission, première, all seem like good properties for classical compositions as well.

The date and place of composition is an interesting challenge, an example of a frequent modeling challenge in Freebase. Representing this information complicates the model when done properly; one really wants the composer-composition relationship to be a CVT. However, most compositions don’t have this information readily available, making it an unnecessary composition. Would it be acceptable to have the date(s) and place of composition simply depending from the composition itself? That would mean, for example, that one could not correctly describe compositions begun by one composer and completed by another.

Composition: dates and location of composition

2008-09-08T17:25:56.0012Z

As with most good user suggestions, I will say: Go try it out!

The key, dedication, commission, première, all seem like good properties for classical compositions as well.

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-08T17:14:53.0012Z

With over 3,000 songwriters in Freebase, I do not see the utility in removing it. And when someone is a songwriter, why not say so?

The UI could use some improvement for property-less types. That is not a good reason to remove a correct assertion, however.

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-08T17:14:53.0012Z

With over 3,000 songwriters in Freebase, I do not see the utility in removing it. And when someone is a songwriter, why not say so?

The UI could use some improvement for property-less types. That is not a good reason to remove a correct assertion, however.

Music: dates and location of composition

2008-09-06T18:19:09.0012Z

and some more ideas:

to whom the composition was dedicated is often interesting.

who (person, or sometimes entity such as the san francisco opera) commisioned the work is also often interesting.

location, date, and performer of the premeir is also often interesting.

Composition: dates and location of composition

2008-09-06T18:19:09.0012Z

and some more ideas:

to whom the composition was dedicated is often interesting.

who (person, or sometimes entity such as the san francisco opera) commisioned the work is also often interesting.

location, date, and performer of the premeir is also often interesting.

Music: dates and location of composition

2008-09-06T18:14:53.0018Z

can we add dates for when a work was composed (start, end)? i'd like to start building timeline visualizations of this. this is particularly applicable to classical music but could be generally useful. for instance a timeline of brahms's symphonys (it took him ~14 years to write it because he felt so pressured coming after beethoven's 9th).

secondly - place composed (probably non unique) would be interesting for mapping the works composed. for example - dvorak's new world symphony and american string quartet, and mapping liszt's travels. in general there's quite a lot of data on location composed particularly for classical music that we could easily structure.

thirdly - and this is more complicated, at least for classical music, we should capture the catalog ID - which for many composers is an opus, number combination, but for mozart it was K for Ludwig Ritter von Köchel and haydn and bach also had their own thing.

fourthly - we should also capture key for classical compositions.

Composition: dates and location of composition

2008-09-06T18:14:53.0018Z

fourthly - we should also capture key for classical compositions.

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-06T04:30:39.0012Z

Yes, I see your point, but it looks UGLY. Is there a way, then, of getting rid of the "Songwriter" from the page? If we cannot use it, it is better not to have it there at all. Why keep useless things? Please have a look at Cage, his page could look REALLY good if it was not for these 2 empty boxes.

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-06T04:30:39.0012Z

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-05T21:47:51.0012Z

The Lyricist type has the property “Lyrics Written.”

Some types, like Songwriter, are only used to classify topics, and have no properties of their own. We generally try to avoid them, but Songwriter was added to the system early on.

As I said in our earlier discussion, the notion of which compositions are songs and which are not is too subjective to easily divide. Many people regard Cage as a cutting-edge composer, and would consider calling his compositions “songs” dismissive. Rather than provoke edit wars, it is simpler to regard all musical compositions equally in Freebase.

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-05T21:47:51.0012Z

The Lyricist type has the property “Lyrics Written.”

Some types, like Songwriter, are only used to classify topics, and have no properties of their own. We generally try to avoid them, but Songwriter was added to the system early on.

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-05T17:17:07.0012Z

Good morning, Cris, did you see my 3 wonderful philosophers on the front page today??

Sure, I can do that, but it is not nice to have empty spaces on the page. Look at Cage, please, what is the use of the "Songwriter" "Lyricist" boxes if we cannot put anything in them? It simply does not look good. Cage wrote songs...

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-05T17:17:07.0012Z

Good morning, Cris, did you see my 3 wonderful philosophers on the front page today??

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-05T16:11:46.0012Z

He has the Songwriter type, which as I said before is a shorthand for both Composer and Lyricist. Songwriter has no properties of its own.

He also has the Composer type with several “Works Composed” already entered. You can add to that list.

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-05T16:11:46.0012Z

He has the Songwriter type, which as I said before is a shorthand for both Composer and Lyricist. Songwriter has no properties of its own.

He also has the Composer type with several “Works Composed” already entered. You can add to that list.

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-05T05:41:45.0012Z

... then why does John Cage have the "Song composer" type without anything on it??

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-05T05:41:45.0012Z

... then why does John Cage have the "Song composer" type without anything on it??

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-05T04:32:42.0012Z

Please use the “Works Composed” property of the Composer type.

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-05T04:32:42.0012Z

Please use the “Works Composed” property of the Composer type.

Music: Songs composed

2008-09-05T03:52:57.0018Z

Cris, please give us "Songs composed," I need it for John Cage. Thank you

Songwriter: Songs composed

2008-09-05T03:52:57.0018Z

Cris, please give us "Songs composed," I need it for John Cage. Thank you

Music: Orchestras conducted

2008-08-30T10:53:22.0011Z

Cris, please, we need "Orchestras conducted." Thank you

Conductor: Orchestras conducted

2008-08-30T10:53:22.0011Z

Cris, please, we need "Orchestras conducted." Thank you

Music: Concert Hall

2008-08-28T22:54:42.0001Z

Ok, thank you

Music: Concert Hall

2008-08-28T20:54:28.0012Z

Go ahead and create a type in your own domain, then, as a prototype. We have generally eschewed types in the Commons that have no properties, but it is possible that your type will evolve. I would recommend that you include Structure and Location in your type.

Music: Concert Hall

2008-08-28T20:13:33.0012Z

I am not thinking of any new properties, I only need the list at the moment

Music: Concert Hall

2008-08-28T19:25:00.0012Z

Take a look at Micah’s draft Performance Venue type and Robert’s draft Performance venue as well. A concert hall is a kind of performance venue; what additional properties would it need that these Performance venue types don’t have?

Music: Concert Hall

2008-08-28T17:47:05.0005Z

Cris,

we need the "Concert Hall" Type and a list of concert halls, please. There are practically hundreds of them in the world

Music: Works composed

2008-08-28T00:07:15.0000Z

Why can't we have "Songwriter" with "Songs composed"? It makes sense and we need it

Composer: Works composed

2008-08-28T00:07:15.0000Z

Why can't we have "Songwriter" with "Songs composed"? It makes sense and we need it

Music: Works composed

2008-08-27T20:21:08.0012Z

Currently, Songwriter has no properties of its own. It is a convenience type which includes Composer (with “Works composed”) and Lyricist (with “Lyrics written”), as well as Person (with all its properties).

Composer: Works composed

2008-08-27T20:21:08.0012Z

Music: Works composed

2008-08-27T19:13:40.0012Z

Alright, I see your point. So what do we have now?

Songwriter with Songs composed and

Composer with Works composed ?

If so, then everything is fine

Composer: Works composed

2008-08-27T19:13:40.0012Z

Alright, I see your point. So what do we have now?

Songwriter with Songs composed and

Composer with Works composed ?

If so, then everything is fine

Music: Works composed

2008-08-27T18:39:57.0012Z

But Billy Joel has composed classical music. So has Paul McCartney. It doesn’t make sense to shoehorn their classical compositions into a song bucket just because most of their work has been songs.

Composer: Works composed

2008-08-27T18:39:57.0012Z

But Billy Joel has composed classical music. So has Paul McCartney. It doesn’t make sense to shoehorn their classical compositions into a song bucket just because most of their work has been songs.

Music: Works composed

2008-08-27T17:58:30.0005Z

I did not mean to separate the songs from the works "within" the same composer! I wanted to keep Billy Joel and Schubert separately!!

"Songs composed" = Billy

"Works composed" = Schubert

That's why we need both categories